ravenfrog ([info]ravenfrog) wrote,
  • Mood: nerdy

HBP Spoilers!!

No likee, no clickee.



Well, the Ron/Hermione is certainly canon now, isn't it? Although Ron/Lavender is also, sadly. Sadly for Lavender, mostly, because even though she's not my type of girl, at least she's not the utter ass in the relationship that Ron is. In between hiding from his girlfriend and needing the idea of the lucky potion to play decent quidditch, I'm not that impressed with Ron this book. Grow a pair already, Gryffindor! He seems like a nice, average 16 year old boy: and I'm not much impressed with those either. *grin*

And the Harry/Ginny? Well, the break-up during a funeral because the angsty hero needs to focus on his huge and looming responsibilities couldn't have been lifted any more directly from the end of Spiderman unless they renamed him Harry Parker and made him stare longingly after his redheaded ex-girlfriend... oh wait. *rolls eyes*

I have no particular Ginny hate, now that she's grown out of the doormat stage, but I have no love either. And why is that? Because JKR had the hero's love interest missing from most of the book and all of the plot. I think I could like this new and improved Ginny- if I knew something about her besides quidditch, red hair and Ron's little sister. Oh, and she's apparently not afraid of kissing, which is good for my inner feminist, I suppose, but still gives me no idea of her as a person. Plus, I guess I'm not that big on the whole girl-next-door grows up and gets noticed cliche, but she is better than Harry's other het options, I suppose.

OTOH, go Remus/Tonks! And the Bill/Fleur interaction was quite cute, and heartwarming at the end, though it was sad to see Molly, Hermione and Ginny behaving like petty bitches at the beginning of the book, just because Fleur is pretty. Now that I think about it, JKR basically has Tonks totally fall apart for a whole school year because things don't initially work out for her and Remus, and that's at odds with my idea of what a sane, adult 20-something would do too. Guess JKR doesn't think highly of her own gender, eh?

Although not many people came off well in this book, really. Ginny improved, but as I said before, it's easy to improve on such a shallowly fleshed out character. And the men seemed to have it nearly as bad. Dumbledore might have been trying to make some obscure point to Harry with all the pensieve memories, but the fact remains that he kept Harry in the dark about quite a bit even 'til the end, and seems to have no qualms with encouraging him to partake in situations far beyond him, advanced DADA student or not. Just having a few decent conversations with Harry would have saved a lot of time and explained a lot more to Harry... all that enigmatic crap did was allow Harry to reach his own unstable 16 year old conclusions; and Harry's priorities were hardly in the right place.

Harry was certainly more obsessed with Malfoy than with Voldemort this book, that's for sure. (And also more obsessed with him than Ginny, or even quidditch.) Which is a bit scary since I know that JKR is intending to write Harry straight, and apparently thinks that a straight boy would leave his girl crush and his team to investigate his rival, if given a chance. Well, maybe on her planet.

Although Harry was an ass about Draco crying: a less petty person, or just a smarter one, would have tried to turn Malfoy instead of tail him. But wait, you say, Harry was right, Draco turned out to be evil at the end! Well, or at least a confused boy being blackmailed in fear of his life. Draco certainly does not come off as impressive, but he does come off sympathetically, at least to me on my initial reading.

And Snape: well, we shall see. I still am holding a hunch that Snape and Dumbledore had foreseen some of what happened, and that Snape might have been acting in the best interests of the Order when he did what he did. Or perhaps not, he makes a deliciously clever villian if he really has turned, so I've nothing riding on the theory either way. Voldemort certainly seems quite foolish at times, Snape seems to be by far the bigger challenge if he's really "teh evil" now, and not just going along with some cooked up Dumbledorian plot, and perhaps attempting to rescue Malfoy in the bargain.

ETA: I guess I do have one quibble with Snape turning out to be evil, after all. If that turns out to be true then indeed all the Slytherins we know by name will have turned out to be either evil, prats, or dumb as rocks. It would devalue the more nuanced picture I thought JKR was creating if there are no redeemable Slytherins what-so-ever, and would change the book in my mind from being an enjoyable fantasy series to an enjoyable children's series. Which is what it was intended for, true, but I'd stop rec'ing it to adults if it turns out to be THAT black and white. Brave house, Smart house, Friendly house, house of the ultimate evil... *wink*

And I'm kind of hoping that JKR won't always associate ambitiousness and planning with 'All that is evil and nasty', unless she really thinks that brave enough to risk your life for no perceptible gain is the highest and best character trait going; which, you never know. *grin*

And so having said all that, did I enjoy the book? More so than OoTP, certainly. CAPSLOCK!Harry is dead, though his memory still haunts Hogwarts quite effectively, and her editors did seem to encourage JKR to use the bulk of the book for plot points, and not abuse with the Dursleys or pre-school rituals. I think that all the (main) characters remain vividly depicted and refreshingly human, although perhaps a bit too much so: I do like a LITTLE bit of shiny on my heroes. I am genuinely curious about the end, and remain invested in the characters, even though I am beginning to suspect that I am rooting for the wrong ones, as Dumbledore's death didn't phase me a bit. But if book seven was to come out tomorrow, I'd go to get it, even if meant standing in line (again!) for 3 hours, so I guess that's all the affirmative review that an author could want.



If you've read it, tell me what you think! (Both of the book and my opinions.) *grin*

ETA: Yeah, I did only receive the book 2.5 hours ago, what's your quibble? I read fast.

  • Post a new comment

    Error

    Your IP address will be recorded 

  • 17 comments

[info]hansbekhart

July 16 2005, 23:49:38 UTC 6 years ago

Yeah, I was really irritated by the Remus/Tonks thing. That was the spoiler that I read and was so freaked out by ... I think that what really weirded me out by this book was that because in the past there's been, really, so little shipping going on, it felt really ... fanficcy to me. And not the fanfics that I read, but the truwuv sort of, y'know, het fics. Obviously Harry was still confused and Ron still dumb and Hermione still bizarre, but ... it was odd.

I really liked the Bill/Fleur thing at the end, and was irritated by the girls all treating her like garbage through the book ... c'mon, girls, is your selfesteem really that bad? I think that that's why Lavender and Pansy come off so bad ... JKR seems to hate pretty girls. **shrug**

Also, having Snape go all eb1L! in the sort of mouldy voldy way seemed really OOC. We got a much nicer, more complex view of Draco, but then she not only took away Snape's complexities, but gave us that favour seeking, brown nosing couch man! The very stereotype of Slytherin that I hate. Apart from the eb1L.

[info]ravenfrog

July 17 2005, 00:58:42 UTC 6 years ago

I'm definitely holding out for Spy!Snape, and that this is just the first stage in a masterful plan to kill V.

The Slug-man was a gross caricature, to be sure, but so have all the DOD teachers been, except Remus.

And I think you're right about JKR hating pretty girls, and also apparently the well-off. Seems like maybe she thinks the Slytherin kids have so many advantages in terms of dollars, that it shouldn't matter that they're discriminated against or not well cared for otherwise, when any sane person would choose a happy childhood over a rich one. You'd think that JKR would have learned by now that money doesn't by happiness. And if she thinks it does, then she's shallow on a level I don't even want to begin to contemplate.

And back on the pretty thing: even though Fleur comes through for Bill in the end, she's apparently socially inept otherwise, with the comments she was making. And Lavender is an absolute airhead, with the Won-Won and the necklace: but at least she's genuine in her affection, unlike jerk!Ron.

I also agree with you on the "shippers paradise" thing... maybe she's been reading to many wank wars and felt she had to respond. *rolls eyes* I don't think I'd mind R/T if T didn't have to fall apart to accomplish it. It doesn't even preclude R/S because at this point, S is dead, and everyone's entitled to move on. But it still doesn't seem like much of a match, maturity-wise. *sigh*

[info]hansbekhart

July 17 2005, 04:31:46 UTC 6 years ago

I love Draco/Snape interactions. Not even necessarily slash, but just seeing them together ... I love it. Don't know why. So I like the idea that Snape did it to save Draco's life ... but a part of me goes, hey, a bad Snape would actually be pretty cool. But since family is such a huge theme in these books, and even though Harry can't see it, Draco's got some gigantic family issues. And I think that they're a lot different than the ones usually portrayed in fanon. That was also what made it so exciting to see his mother pleading for him ... she's usually portrayed as this cold bitch, someone who doesn't care for Draco except for those packages of sweets (replacement for real love, I suppose).

I can never really pin down what JKR thinks. She tends to say one thing, and do another with a lot of different issues.

See, that is what is so irritating to me. I've seen this said on my flist, but why does she keep hammering into our heads throughout the books that it's not where you come from, it's the choices you make, if Tom Riddle came from a whole line of inbred psychotics? He was raised away from them and he was STILL an inbred psychopath.

Even if Fleur is socially inept (and I don't blame her if she is, she IS English second language and it's pretty damn easy to seem like an ass when you're not communicating in your own language) it still just seemed really hateful, the way the Weasleys treated her. And Percy!! He came there expecting to be attacked, and he was! With mashed potatoes or parsnips or whatever! Ugh. But there's that double standard again. When Slytherins (or Others) do it, it's because they're bad people. When Gryffindors (or Weasleys) do it, it's because They deserve it.

[info]ravenfrog

July 17 2005, 05:47:44 UTC 6 years ago

Oh yes, totally agree with you on the hypocrisy of it all. I think Percy's probably got one of the worst reps, for the least amount of actual reason. He's forever considered a total prick because... he obeys rules, studies hard and has the gall to disagree politically with his parents! *gasp* Don't stone me, but I don't vote the way my folks do either.

And I abhor practical jokers, BTW, since amusement at others expense has NEVER been funny to me, no matter how cute or well-written the twins are.

I also agree with you that Fleur is probably doing the best she can, considering, not just with language issues, but with cultural ones, and JKR putting her in a negative light for most of the book just seems petty to me.

And you're absolutely right about JKR mixing up her lessons in the way she treats heritage: not only is Voldemort teh evil at least in part because he's an inbred physco, we've heard a million times about how Harry's performance would make his parents proud or he's a chip off the old block, despite the fact that he has never interacted in any meaningful way with these dead people. So whatever influence JKR is ascribing to them, it's obviously genetic. Mixed messages, indeed.

[info]hansbekhart

July 17 2005, 23:34:23 UTC 6 years ago

I like Percy a lot because he's the only character who actually lives up to his mother's expectations. Anything that a mother like Molly could want, Percy is it. She thinks her husbands obsessions are silly, and I agree with her: with eight gazillion children to support, he is selfish for thinking of himself like that. Birth control obviously exists in the wizarding world, since not everyone has eight gazillion children, so either use it or stop at, say, three. And his siblings have tortured him for it. It just seems really petty to me.

Yeah, I agree with you. Fred and George's antics sound amusing on paper, but when you stop and think about how horrible you'd feel if they singled you out to do something like that ... and I definitely get the impression that you either laugh with them or become a joke yourself (unless you're Hermione). I like the twins because they're twins (I can't help it) and because JKR actually writes them like two different people instead of just calling them "the twins" all the time (so refreshing), but man, they are cruel to a horrible degree.

I guess JKR gives us a lot of mixed messages ... ugh, we could spend weeks discussing that alone!!

[info]ravenfrog

July 18 2005, 23:35:56 UTC 6 years ago

I guess JKR gives us a lot of mixed messages ... ugh, we could spend weeks discussing that alone!!

Quite. *grin*

[info]oiledlamp

July 18 2005, 17:18:44 UTC 6 years ago

I've watched Rowling's portrayal of wealth evolve in the books with interest, if for no other reason than she should have a very interesting perspective on the subject. After all, she's currently the most wealthy woman in Britain. A little over a decade ago, she was on welfare and had to worry about the basic necessities of life, but this series has put her in a position to never have to worry about having enough money ever again. She's made a lot of statements about how having plenty of money has changed her, and not just her life. Things have gotten better for her life all-around since she became wealthy; not only has she been able to earn a good living doing what she loves, but she fell in love herself, got married, had two more children, contributed enormously to charities close to her heart, etc. I think it would be fair to say that under these circumstances, then, Rowling probably equates the acquisition of wealth with happiness, at least on a subconscious level, because for her that has definitely been the case. So, yeah, I think it's interesting that the wealthy characters in her books are portrayed so unsympathetically, whereas the poor families (like the Weasley's) are given a good deal of slack when it comes to their own faults. I mean, sure, having money does make a lot of things easier, but in my experience, being poor or being rich has very little to do with a person's true character. A rich person's challenges often deal more with the person on the inside, because a poor person has to spend so much time just surviving that they can't devote as much time to anything else, but it is how the individual faces those challenges that determines what kind of person they turn out to be. At least on the surface, Rowling would appear to agree with this principle, but it is interesting that she doesn't always translate it into her subtext. I think when it comes right down to it, she does have more sympathy for the problems of the poor than the rich, although it's not too difficult to see why.

[info]ravenfrog

July 18 2005, 23:35:05 UTC 6 years ago

That's good thinking on why she writes the way she does, and an interesting reality check. Still, the way it worked out for JKR is not the way it works out for most people. There's a stat somewhere about what a high percentage of people who win the lottery are totally bankrupt again within three years, because the life they were living before has not taught them how to handle the challenges and temptations that come with great wealth.

And my best guess would be that most of JKRs renewed happiness comes from the new marriage and kids, even if she associates those blessing with money. Hopefully her spouse would love her just the same if she lost it all, and hopefully that love would still make her happy if they were impoverished.

I actually think it's harder to be rich and live a good and fulfilling life than it is to be poor and do so, precisely because there's not time or energy left to make it all about you, and there's also less things tempting you. Great wealth seems almost like a hindrance you have to overcome to be a good person, because those internal battles against ourself are much more difficult than the external kind.

[info]zophiel666

July 18 2005, 02:15:31 UTC 6 years ago

yea, verily . .

I agree with most of what you've written. I'll be posting my own review/ critique in a short bit. I think I'll address most of your points there.

^_^

[info]ravenfrog

July 18 2005, 05:24:46 UTC 6 years ago

Re: yea, verily . .

Ooooh! *rushes over to your LJ*

[info]sh1mm3r

July 18 2005, 03:59:15 UTC 6 years ago

I feel... uncomfortable with the ending

I am reluctant to believe Snape is evil, no matter what everyone thinks (everyone meaning Harry and his friends). With every father figure disappearing, only the Weasleys are left to die, right? Unless Snape steps up in book 7, which I'm assuming will happen.

I too felt the romances were thrown in to satisfy fanfic/slash fans. Sometimes it felt like an afterthought, but perhaps I read too much of it! (Methinks this could definitely be the case).

Dumbledore dying - I care not. His arc was over in book 5, and it seemed drawn out to me. Also with Hagrid. I just don't care about them anymore! That may be heartless, I know. I did appreciate him imparting more of his wisdom before dying. That was thoughtful.

I don't want H/H/R to grow up and skip their last year of Hogwarts. Here's to hoping that won't really happen; it could turn too much into a Robert Jordan series where all the characters have their own dramas and don't come together until the end, and this kind of writing bores me to tears. I think the dynamics between classmates isn't over yet, and I don't want to see the end of it. I think there is still room for Malfoy to undergo major personality conflicts/changes.

One thing I expected to happen this year and didn't was the increasing role of Neville. I still think it could happen. Someone has to take care of Ginny now, in JK's world, and I'm thinking that could be his role. We all know he will end up teaching Herbology, right? :)

Back to the romances, there was a definite undercurrent that more was going on than Rowling was telling us. Or again, I read too much fanfic. Whee!

[info]ravenfrog

July 18 2005, 05:20:05 UTC 6 years ago

Re: I feel... uncomfortable with the ending

I hope that Hogwarts remains open in at least some capacity for the next year also, and for the same reason: more chance for student interaction. So far we've still not seen anything in the way of all school unity as was requested by the sorting hat in the previous book, so that's a hanging bit, too.

I also hope there's something in the cards for Neville, and Ginny and herbology professorship would suit me just fine.

And of course my biggest wish is that the Snape bru-ha-ha is part of a masterplan for the light: we shall see.

[info]zehera

July 20 2005, 06:31:24 UTC 6 years ago

I haven't read it yet, so I'm not reading your comment yet. I just had to agree with your self assessment of "nerdy". hehehe
:)

love ya!

[info]ravenfrog

July 20 2005, 06:54:36 UTC 6 years ago

Well, I'm always honest, right?
*grin*

[info]twistedlogic

July 24 2005, 04:20:00 UTC 6 years ago

Ok let's see if I can remember all I wanted to comment on...

Fleur (sp?) and the girl's jealousy of her. From what I remember of book 4 I think that it's more than just an on the surface jealousy. Don't veela's have this pheremone type thing that drive men wild? She's part veela and I attributed a good chunk of their reactions to her to that. Perhaps not directly, as in it affected them, but rather the way they saw it affect all the men around her, not just Bill. I think they, on some level, were concerned that Bill was only attracted to her because of her veela side and that she was only attracted to him because of his looks which was proved wrong at the end of the book. Besides she did have some pretty snotty ways of looking at how they lived and such....not saying I'm a fan of her's just commenting on what I see.

Percy. Yes he is Molly's perfect son. Yes he thinks on his own (as far as we can tell) in as much as he does what he thinks is right no matter what his parents think. We don't know what happened when Harry was off talking in the garden. Who knows what Percy might have done/said/insinuated. Fact is no matter how unlike his family he is...they're still family. He could have tried to find a way to be at least civil to them or interact with them during holidays. But no, for the past two years/books he's done everything in his power to dissasociate himself from them and pretend they don't exist. I say Percy got what he deserved during that Christmas visit.

I admit I was thrown off by the Tonks/Remus thing. With as much as Molly was trying to hook her and Bill up I thought for certain her depression/mood swings were all because of Sirius. And I think his death (even though they weren't that close they were still family and fighting on the same side) compounded the rejection she got from Remus. Of course had I re-read the books before I read this one I might have caught on, I don't remember if in the OoP there was any clues as to their potential involvement.

And I'm jealous of the time it took you to read it. I've gotten rusty in that I don't read often anymore so it took me probably 8 hours total, possibly less, to read it.

The Harry/Ginny thing really reminded me too much of the fic I saw floating around pretending to be the next book (I think 4) where Harry goes to pieces at the Burrow before school whenever Ginny's in the room.

While I get what you're saying about the 'day to day' stuff that can be skipped because she went into so much detail before it seemed like too much got skipped. Although any more would have made for a book too hard to hold.

I think there's more I could say but I'm running out of ideas atm.

[info]pink_grrl

July 27 2005, 17:20:03 UTC 6 years ago

OMG!! I can't believe you finished the book so fast! (I read fast too - but jeez!) I have to say..... I was a bit bummed about the whole Snape aspect. I mean..... I dunno - just didn't seem to fit to me. Was a sort of good twist though. :-p (omg - hated the Harry/Ginny breakup - really stupid.)

[info]ravenfrog

July 28 2005, 08:13:19 UTC 6 years ago

Exactly. *hearts*
PS Check your email.
Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Facebook Twitter More login options
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…